iss....prossimi ascolti

[vagabondo]

Ma sapevi che avrebbero trasmesso o hai avuto una botta di c.?

[Ugo da Norcia]

Più la seconda della prima.

[DeltaSQ]

La botta di c..o non va mai male ma in realtà tempo indietro mi ero iscritto ad una sorta di "news letter" e appena ci sono dei passaggi della ISS che potrebbero interessare la nostra zona mi arriva la comunicazione tipo questa:

ARISS contact planned with Institut Florimont, Geneva, Switzerland

An ARISS educational radio contact is planned with Institut Florimont,
Geneva, Switzerland. The event is scheduled Wednesday September 17 at
08:17 UTC, which is 10.17 CEST. It will be a direct contact, operated by
4U1ITU, the amateur radio clubstation of the International
Telecommunications Union Headquarters.

Downlink signals will be audible in Europe on 145.800 MHz narrowband FM.

School presentation:
Institut Florimont is a co-educational day school offering children from 3
to 18 years of age a complete education from kindergarten to the three
diplomas that will open the doors to higher education. As well as
encouraging academic excellence, Florimont fosters the traditional values
and beliefs that are important for life.
Since 1905, Florimont has been preparing students for the French
Baccalaureat and, as of 1942, for the Swiss Maturité. From September 2014
our range of final examinations will include the bilingual
(French-English) International Baccalaureate. Therefore, Florimont will
offer children even more opportunities and more choices, allowing them
easier access to the world's best universities.

The four sections of our school work together to ensure the continuity and
coherence of the programme of study. Clear procedures are in place to
ensure that new students joining us from other private or public schools
are successfully integrated. Close communication with parents, additional
lessons and one-to-one tutoring are just some of the ways that Florimont
supports students during their studies.
Our student body is made up of more than fifty nationalities making
Florimont a rich multi-cultural and multi-lingual learning environment.
The importance we attach to this is reflected in our language learning
programme. In addition to English, emphasis is placed on German,
Switzerland's predominant language, as well as on Chinese, Spanish and
Italian. Other languages such as Russian and Arabic are individually
tutored or taught to small groups.Bilingual classes in French and English
are offered from the first year of the middle school.

Priority is given to partnerships and exchanges with leading schools
worldwide, as well as to many activities that can add value to a
university application.
Our students are encouraged to be entrepreneurial, bold, adaptable and
creative because we know that these qualities will not only strengthen
their university applications but also prepare them to face the challenges
of working life.

Students will ask as many of following questions as time allows:
1. Gaella: Are the mobile phones working fine in space?
2. Adriano: How do you wash yourself on the ISS?
3. Edouard: Can you create a gravitational field on the ISS as if you'd
be on earth?
4. Santiago: What were your motivations to become an astronaut?
5. Ana: Can you really see the Chinese Great Wall from space?
6. Cecilia: Do you feel isolated in space?
7. Gabriele: At what speed are you travelling right now?
8. Sappho: Are there any women with you at the ISS?
9. Sebastien: What do you do in your free time?
10. Alejandro: How do you come back to Earth after your mission?
11. Antoine: How long have you already been in space?
12. Hugo: What is this effect of absence of gravity on your body?
13. Morgane: How do you communicate with your family?
14. Anastasia: Do you talk also with radio amateurs or only with schools?
15. Diane: Can you see the ozone layer around the Earth?
16. Martin: What do you feel seeing sunrises and sunsets more than one per
day?
17. Adriano: Do you have to protect yourself against cosmic radiation?
18. Alessandro: Does the absence of gravity disturb the blood circulation
in your body?
19. Maksim: What thing did surprise you the most when arriving on the ISS?
20. Edouard: What do you dream about when you are on the ISS?

ARISS is an international educational outreach program partnering the
participating space agencies, NASA, Russian Space Agency, ESA, CNES, JAXA,
and CSA, with the AMSAT and IARU organizations from participating
countries.

ARISS offers an opportunity for students to experience the excitement of
Amateur Radio by talking directly with crewmembers onboard the
International Space Station. Teachers, parents and communities see, first
hand, how Amateur Radio and crewmembers on ISS can energize
youngsters' interest in science, technology and learning.

73,

Gaston Bertels, ON4WF
ARISS Europe Chairman


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73 da DeltaSQ :up:

[lake]

per saperne di piu' sulle freq di ascolto, e su che apparati hanno a bordo
http://ziozemu.xoom.it/ISS_FREQ.html

[DeltaSQ]

per saperne di piu' sulle freq di ascolto, e su che apparati hanno a bordo
http://ziozemu.xoom.it/ISS_FREQ.html

Molto interessante, è bello sapere con cosa viene trasmesso il segnale che si ascolta :-D.

73 da DeltaSQ

[vagabondo]

Il 23 novembre sulla ISS sale l'astronauta italiana Samantha Cristoforetti.Tra l'altro le stanno dando amplio spazio di propaganda su tv,web,facebook ecc. C'e' anche un sito dedicato: avamposto42.esa.int
So che e' gia' stata prenotata per i contatti con le scuole e che ormai non e ' piu' possibile aggiungersi. Resta la speranza di sentirla almeno durante i contatti.
C'e' qualcuno che e' aggiornato sui contatti europei in modo da sintonizzarsi quando ci saranno? Li puo' postare qui in anticipo?
Io ho fatto richiesta all'Ariss e anche all'Amsat,ma per il momento non ho ticevuto nessuna notizia.
73 a tutti

[DeltaSQ]

Il 23 novembre sulla ISS sale l'astronauta italiana Samantha Cristoforetti.Tra l'altro le stanno dando amplio spazio di propaganda su tv,web,facebook ecc. C'e' anche un sito dedicato: avamposto42.esa.int
So che e' gia' stata prenotata per i contatti con le scuole e che ormai non e ' piu' possibile aggiungersi. Resta la speranza di sentirla almeno durante i contatti.
C'e' qualcuno che e' aggiornato sui contatti europei in modo da sintonizzarsi quando ci saranno? Li puo' postare qui in anticipo?
Io ho fatto richiesta all'Ariss e anche all'Amsat,ma per il momento non ho ticevuto nessuna notizia.
73 a tutti

Ciao Vagabondo!
Al momento io non ho ricevuto ancora nulla, se ti sei iscritto anche tu alla news letter sicuramente ti arriverà la comunicazione, al massimo poi io, tu o qualcun altro posterà la comunicazione su questo topic  ;-).

73 da DeltaSQ

[vagabondo]

Ecco qua il prossimo contatto: una scuola in USA. Dicono che si puo' sentire in Europa,ma che razza di antenne ci vorranno?

ARISS contact planned with Indiana Area School District, Indiana, PA

An ARISS educational radio contact is planned with Indiana Area School District, Indiana County, Pennsylvania. The event is scheduled Friday October 17, 2014 at 16:41:45 UTC, which is 18.42 CEST. It will be a telebridge contact, operated by IK1SLD.

Downlink signals will be audible in Europe on 145.800 MHz narrowband FM.

Moreover, the contact will be broadcast on EchoLink AMSAT (node 101 377) and JK1ZRW (node 277 208) Conference servers, as well as on IRLP Discovery Reflector 9010.

School inrformation:
Indiana, Pennsylvania is a rural town with a population of 32,000 that is situated sixty miles northeast of Pittsburgh.  Our residents enjoy the convenient proximity to a major city, as well as the community-feel and lifestyle of a small town.  The Indiana Area School District has provided a dynamic high-quality educational program for over 170 years.  Our four K-5 elementary schools, one 6-8 junior high school and one 9-12 senior high school serve 2800 students district wide. 

In addition to distinguished academic achievement, our students' activities include fundraising for a variety of charitable causes, school and community leadership, as well as setting new standards for excellence in both academic and athletics competitions.  In fact, we currently boast two National Merit Scholarship semi-finalists and a third honoree.  We are proud of our student's accomplishments! 

Our dynamic school programs are part of the building blocks for student success.  Beginning with a commitment to early childhood and pre-K programs to increase student learning readiness, to the rigor and challenge of enrichment options at the elementary school level.  Our secondary programs include an array of Advanced Placement and STEM course offerings, dual enrollment options, and our own cyber school option for students.  Many local residents will tell you, "Indiana, PA is a great place to raise a family."  This is true because we blend the small town community with a school system that continually strives to provide cutting-edge programs that prepare students to be successful citizens.

Students will ask as many of following questions as time allows:
1. Chase:  How many countries are involved in the International Space Station?
2. Josh: Can you feel the cold of space through your space suit?
3. Liam: Do you believe that there is intelligent life thriving somewhere in the universe?
4. Dave:  Does being weightless have any long-term effects on the human body?
5. Laura:  When do you think we will have the technology for astronauts to travel farther in space?
6. Andre: Which of the research projects that you are working on right now, has the most scientific potential?
7. Axel: Who has the most control over the spacecraft?  The astronauts, stabilization auto-pilot, or mission control?
8. Breanna: What is the scariest thing that has ever happened to you in space?
9. Maddie Redhead-Kriston:  Are space suits comfortable?
10. Erica: How do you help your families deal with the dangers of your job?
11. Isabelle: What is the most common misconception teenagers may have about space?
12. Brandon: Do you have any anxiety because you are nowhere near the safety of Earth?
13. Nathan: What college, and what major, would you recommend for someone to become an astronaut?
14. Shaelyn: What is the most interesting, or strangest, thing you have seen in the space station?
15. Tavan: What surprised you the most when you first arrived in space?
16. Maddie Todd: Do you foresee a day when space colonies will be real?

ARISS is an international educational outreach program partnering the participating space agencies, NASA, Russian Space Agency, ESA, CNES, JAXA, and CSA, with the AMSAT and IARU organizations from participating countries.

ARISS offers an opportunity for students to experience the excitement of Amateur Radio by talking directly with crewmembers onboard the International Space Station.

Teachers, parents and communities see, first hand, how Amateur Radio and crewmembers on ISS can energize youngsters' interest in science, technology and learning.

73,

Gaston Bertels, ON4WF
ARISS Europe Chairman


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[ik1npe]

Salve, se il telebridge lo fa IK1SLD dall' aeroporto di Casale Monferrato ( Al ) è perfettamente udibile in Italia .
lo puoi anche seguire su Eckolink ai numeri (indirizzi) che trovi scritti sul comunicato.
73 de ik1npe

[DeltaSQ]

Sto già scaldando il ricebitore 8).
@ Vagabondo: ti è arrivato l'avviso dalla news letter?

73 da DeltaSQ

[vagabondo]

Sto già scaldando il ricebitore 8).
@ Vagabondo: ti è arrivato l'avviso dalla news letter?

73 da DeltaSQ

x

Si,mi e' arrivato dall'Ariss.
Ciao

[vagabondo]

Ma l'Ariss ha cannato? Stasera alle 18,42 la ISS doveva essere sopra gli Usa e fare la trasmissione con la scuola della Pensilvania e invece stava passando sopra la Germania. Ovviamente non si e' sentita nessuna trasmissione.
Come puo' essere successo?

[TITAN-TITAN]

dove la vedi ? su orbitron ?

[vagabondo]

No,su www.n2yo.com

[ik1npe]

Ma l'Ariss ha cannato? Stasera alle 18,42 la ISS doveva essere sopra gli Usa e fare la trasmissione con la scuola della Pensilvania e invece stava passando sopra la Germania. Ovviamente non si e' sentita nessuna trasmissione.
Come puo' essere successo?

Salve, la trasmissione è andata benone , è stata fatta dalla stazione di Casale Monferrato da IK1SLD via telebridge.
Mi pare che sia stato fatto anche il collegamento in video ovviamente non sui 145.800.
73 de ik1npe

[vagabondo]

Ma l'Ariss ha cannato? Stasera alle 18,42 la ISS doveva essere sopra gli Usa e fare la trasmissione con la scuola della Pensilvania e invece stava passando sopra la Germania. Ovviamente non si e' sentita nessuna trasmissione.
Come puo' essere successo?

Salve, la trasmissione è andata benone , è stata fatta dalla stazione di Casale Monferrato da IK1SLD via telebridge.
Mi pare che sia stato fatto anche il collegamento in video ovviamente non sui 145.800.
73 de ik1npe

Si,ma su che frequenza si e' sentita? Perche' Ariss dava per l'europa la frequenza di 145.800 ma io nonostante da Casale m. non sia lontano non ho ricevuto niente e poi alle 18,42 il tracking di n2yo.com la dava sulla Germania e non sugli USA. C'e' qualcosa che mi sfugge... :-\

[ik1npe]

salve, venerdi sera ero in sezione a Casale e il Claudio IK1SLD ha detto che tutto è andato bene , c'erano anche altri OM e tutto è filato liscio.
Con che criterio alla NASA indichino una stazione o l' altra per l' ascolto e il telebridge non so dirtelo .
Ma la cosa sicura è che valutano le stazioni organizzate per quelle date ore che le scuole sono aperte e gli astronauti non hanno altro da fare.
Ti posso assicurare che da Casale sono stati fatti collegamenti per scuole in India , Australia , USA ecc. sempre con il solito sistema .
In più ora sono abilitati anche per i collegamenti video , ovviamente quando si ha un maggior tempo di acquisizione  fra il sorgere e il tramontare della ISS.
73 de ik1npe

[vagabondo]

@ ik1npe

Grazie per le spiegazioni, quel che soprattutto volevo capire e' se dal mio qth vicino a Vigevano-Abbiategrasso potevo sentire la trasmissione col portatile sintonizzandomi  semplicemente sui 145.800 o se invece sia indispensabile usare i nodi di echolink,di cui conosco molto poco e che non ho mai usato.
73

[r5000]

@ ik1npe

Grazie per le spiegazioni, quel che soprattutto volevo capire e' se dal mio qth vicino a Vigevano-Abbiategrasso potevo sentire la trasmissione col portatile sintonizzandomi  semplicemente sui 145.800 o se invece sia indispensabile usare i nodi di echolink,di cui conosco molto poco e che non ho mai usato.
73

73 a tutti, per ascoltare la ISS basta il gommino a patto di essere all'aperto  senza disturbi che coprono la ricezione, anche se mi sembra (è un'impressione) che il segnale arriva meno forte di qualche tempo fà, io ricordo il fondoscala anche con il gommino di serie del vx7 ma ultimamente sembra che non ci arriva, prova a 145.825 mhz è più facile  visto che le trasmissioni aprs sono automatiche e indipendenti dal tempo libero degli astronauti, sentirai il rumore tipico e volendo lo decodifichi con il pc ma comincia a sentire se lo ricevi ovviamente durante i passaggi favorevoli, se molto bassa all'orizzonte potresti non ricevere perchè coperto da ostacoli, quando è alta sopra l'italia devi ascoltare anche con il gommino...

[DeltaSQ]

ARISS contact planned with two schools in Germany

An ARISS educational radio contact is planned with DLR School Lab TU
Dresden, Dresden, Germany and Woehlerschule, Frankfurt, Germany.
The contact is scheduled Saturday November 8 at 09:54:52 UTC, which is
10:54:52 CEWT.
Downlink signals will be audible in Europe on 145.800 MHz narrowband FM.

The Woehlerschule is one of the largest secondary schools in Frankfurt and
has a total approx. 1300 pupils in years 5-12.
The final qualification in the last year (12) is the general qualification
for university entrance. The school has a strong
focus on the area of mathematics and science and has been a member of the
Association MINT-EC (Excellence Centre for MINT - Mathematics, Information
Technology, Science and Technology) since 2010. This focus is reflected in
the wide range of activities offered at the school, both those which are
integrated in normal classroom lessons at all levels as well as voluntary
extracurricular activities.
The mathematics and science focus of our schools allows a multitude of
possibilities for integrating an ISS-contact into
the school curriculum.

The following outlines three examples:

a) Astronomy has been taught in the middle school for several years as one
of the elective classes in years 8 and 9. The
pupils learn about the night sky and background to making observations and
use the school's telescopes to make their own observations. A regular
feature of these classes is the "moon nights", during which they present
the results of their work, both theoretically and practically, to
interested guests. The annual MINT-rally for primary school children is
another example of activities which help our pupils to develop the ability
to communicate what they have learned to others.

b) Mechanics is a major theme in the curriculum for physics courses during
the first year in the senior school (year 10).
The motion of heavenly bodies fits excellently into this topic. Advanced
physics courses have in the past not only covered
the Kepler Laws, they have also dealt with topics such as Hohmann transfer
and "swing by"-manoeuvers, which play an
important part in space travel. These and other topics are ideally suited
to being presented to the school community as
part of a group activity during an ISS-contact.

c) Calculating the position of the ISS could be integrated into lessons at
various levels, both in the Astronomy course
and in the mechanics courses, and in other subjects. For younger pupils in
years 5-7, it would provide a practical
illustration for the topic of size and dimensions in space, and could be
used integrated for calculations using large
numbers.

In order to establish this activity on the broadest possible foundation,
teachers from all the different subject areas
offered to work together in this project. The following points were
suggested by colleagues from the various subjects
during initial discussion meetings:
English – "The American Dream"; a school-wide competition to formulate
questions for the astronauts
History – The space race between the USA and USSR
Biology – The effect of space travel and weightlessness on the human body
Chemistry – The effect of weightlessness on chemical processes, e.g.
combustion and candle flames.

The Space Conversation will be conducted in German. Astronaut Alexander
Gerst KF5ONO will answer as many of the following questions as time allows:

1. Marisa (12; Wöhlerschule): Was vermissen Sie mehr, ihre Familie oder die
Gravitation?

2. Lia (16; Wöhlerschule): Sie sind den schädlichen kosmischen Strahlen
ausgesetzt – wie kommen Sie mit dieser Tatsache zurecht?

3. Janek (13; TU Dresden): Was war ihr Lieblingsessen?

4. Daniel (13; TU Dresden): Gibt es einen Putzplan an Board?

5. Adina (13; Wöhlerschule): Schwitzen oder frieren Sie in der Raumstation?

6. Emilio (17; Wöhlerschule): In welcher Weise profitieren wir von Ihren
Arbeiten als Astronaut dort oben?

7. Fabian (13; TU Dresden): Gibt es auf der ISS Tag und Nacht, also hell
und dunkel?

8. Alexander (15; TU Dresden): Welches Experiment an Board fanden Sie am
interessantesten und welches Resultat am erstaunlichsten?

9. Anton (11; Wöhlerschule): Was passiert, wenn Sie ernsthaft erkranken?

10. Daniel (17; Wöhlerschule): Schlafen Sie in der gleichen Weise, wie Sie
das auf der Erde tun?

11. Jonas (17; TU Dresden): Gab es spezielle Experimente, bei denen Ihnen
Ihr (geophysikalisches) Fachwissen weitergeholfen hat?

12. Julius (17; TU Dresden): Können Sie sich auch vorstellen, an der
Mars-Mission teilzunehmen, ohne Rückfahrkarte?

13. Nelly (16; Wöhlerschule): Welchen Einfluss hat Ihr Aufenthalt im All
auf Ihre Perspektive von Leben?

14. Lennart (16; Wöhlerschule): Fühlen Sie sich näher an einer höheren
Macht dort oben?

15. Anna (16; TU Dresden): Können Sie sich Leben auf anderen Planeten
vorstellen?

16. Annika (16; TU Dresden): Treiben Sie an Board regelmäßig Sport und
wenn ja was und wie?

17. Gregor (16; Wöhlerschule): Wie haben Sie sich mental auf Ihren
Aufenthalt in der ISS vorbereitet?

18. Raquel (18; Wöhlerschule): Ist der Aufenthalt im All eine gute
Möglichkeit um abzunehmen?

19. Ralf (TU Dresden): Können Sie kurz Ihre Eindrücke und Gefühle während
des Außenboard-Einsatzes schildern?

20. Fabian (14; TU Dresden): Wo kommt eigentlich der Strom an Board her
und was passiert bei einem Blackout?

21. Paul (12; Wöhlerschule): Wie fühlt sich Schwerelosigkeit an?

22. Alexander (14; TU Dresden): Was werden Sie als erstes machen, wenn Sie
wieder auf der Erde sind?

23. Katharina (17; Wöhlerschule): Sind die Empfindungen Ihres Körpers die
selben wie auf der Erde (z.B. das Schlucken von Flüssigkeiten)?

24. Janek (13; TU Dresden): Wollten Sie schon immer Astronaut werden oder
wie kamen Sie auf die Idee?

25. Magnus (17; Wöhlerschule): Sollten die Russen aus der ISS-Mission
aussteigen - was würde passieren?

26. Daniel (13; TU Dresden): Haben Sie alle vorgesehenen Experimente
fertig stellen können oder hinterlassen Sie Ihren Nachfolgern unerledigte
Aufgaben?

27. Paula (14; Wöhlerschule): Können Tränen fliegen, wenn Sie weinen?

28. Anna (16; TU Dresden): Haben Sie von der ISS mal Naturphänomene wie
Vulkanausbrüche oder Wirbelstürme beobachten können?

29. Lilly (14; Wöhlerschule): Wie ist es, wenn Sie aufwachen mit der Welt
unter Ihren Füßen?

30. Annika (16; TU Dresden): Gab es während Ihrer Zeit an Board
vorbeifliegende Meteoriten bzw. mussten Sie sogar ausweichen, um einen
Treffer zu vermeiden?

31. Marie (17; Wöhlerschule): Was denken Sie, wenn Sie darüber nachdenken,
wie Ihr Wasser aufbereitet wird?

32. Sola (14; Wöhlerschule): Ich hörte von einigen Leuten, die in der
Rakete verrückt wurden - wie war das bei Ihnen?

ARISS is an international educational outreach program partnering the
participating space agencies, NASA, Russian Space Agency, ESA, CNES, JAXA,
and CSA, with the AMSAT and IARU organizations from participating
countries.

ARISS offers an opportunity for students to experience the excitement of
Amateur Radio by talking directly with crewmembers onboard the
International Space Station.

Teachers, parents and communities see, first hand, how Amateur Radio and
crewmembers on ISS can energize youngsters' interest in science,
technology and learning.

73,

Gaston Bertels, ON4WF
ARISS Europe Chairman

[-Tuscania-]

....quindi a che ora in Italia.... marameo

[DeltaSQ]

6 minuti alle 11:00 :up:

73 da DeltaSQ

[Alberto207]

è QUASI SOPRA LA TESTA!!!  :abballa:

[vagabondo]

Secondo il tracker di n2yo.com il passaggio avverra' dalle 11,44 (ora in cui sara' sopra l'irlanda) alle 11,54 ( in cui sara' sopra la turchia) con rotta da  NW a SE. Di solito in questo intervallo si sente gia' la trasmissione in aprs,soprattutto  nella seconda meta' dell'intervallo.
Sfiorera' la parte sud della germania alle 11,49 e il friuli alle 11,50.
I dati di n2yo.com di solito sono esattissimi e io riesco col portatile da dentro casa a sentire la trasmissione in aprs 9 volte su 10.
Come ho scritto nei post precedenti invece il precedente appuntamento con le scuole non l'ho sentito proprio. Spero di far centro questa volta visto che mi passa appena sopra la svizzera ,vicino al mio qth milanese.

@ deltasq sei riuscito a sentire il collegamento ultimo con la scuola Usa?

[vagabondo]

@ ik1npe

Grazie per le spiegazioni, quel che soprattutto volevo capire e' se dal mio qth vicino a Vigevano-Abbiategrasso potevo sentire la trasmissione col portatile sintonizzandomi  semplicemente sui 145.800 o se invece sia indispensabile usare i nodi di echolink,di cui conosco molto poco e che non ho mai usato.
73

73 a tutti, per ascoltare la ISS basta il gommino a patto di essere all'aperto  senza disturbi che coprono la ricezione, anche se mi sembra (è un'impressione) che il segnale arriva meno forte di qualche tempo fà, io ricordo il fondoscala anche con il gommino di serie del vx7 ma ultimamente sembra che non ci arriva, prova a 145.825 mhz è più facile  visto che le trasmissioni aprs sono automatiche e indipendenti dal tempo libero degli astronauti, sentirai il rumore tipico e volendo lo decodifichi con il pc ma comincia a sentire se lo ricevi ovviamente durante i passaggi favorevoli, se molto bassa all'orizzonte potresti non ricevere perchè coperto da ostacoli, quando è alta sopra l'italia devi ascoltare anche con il gommino...

Grazie per la risposta,ma ormai riesco a sentire la trasmissione in aprs (anche se non sono attrezzato per decodificarla via pc) da molti mesi, come dico nel post sopra la sento 9 volte su 10 quando passa sull'europa e la ricevo fino a quando arriva in ucraina. Stranamente la sento piu' la Iss quando e' in allontanamento verso est che quando arriva da ovest,anche se la distanza magari e' la stessa. E' sempre emozionante vederla sul pc passare sull'europa e sentire i suoi "battiti" in aprs.
Ora invece vorrei provare a sentire i collegamenti in voce,ma come ho detto la prima volta mi e' andata buca. Si ritenta sabato.
73

Dimenticavo: questa estate dalla sardegna l'ho vista due volte a occhio nudo.